• Anonymous

    I finally made it to read and rec. I just recced the comments, then discovered I wasn’t logged in. Wah!

    • always great to see you Mr. T..

      and we know :)

    • Anonymous

      hi, trashablanca – so good to see you.  Thanks for being here.

  • Meteor Blades

    Too many good points here, but this one struck me as particularly zingerish:

    In brief, the prisoners are cultural commodities to be appropriated,
    exploited, and used/consumed as entertainment by others who seldom, if
    ever, inquire into the humanity and real experiences of those same
    prisoners. Once used, they can be neglected, ignored, discarded
    without another thought. Their fleeting significance is only found in
    how we can profit from them.

    • Anonymous

      Hey, long time no see.

      Thanks for being here.

    • Great to see you here MB..

      Don’t be stranger :)

    • Anonymous

      Why hello there! Good to see you.

      I used to come here more frequently, but have been kind of slacking. Missed you before!

  • Anonymous

    Regarding cultural criminalizing, I’m constantly shocked at how deep it can go. My sister, who’s otherwise really liberal, “liked” a Facebook page a couple weeks ago that said if someone wants welfare they need to be drug tested. These stereotypes are so pervasive that they’re just casually picked up by well-meaning people. The truth is that the “welfare queen on drugs and in an expensive car buying steaks with food stamps” is a really old Reagan MYTH, and it’s totally racist, and there’s no reason to codify that sort of thing into law.

    It’s like it works on the assumption that, sure, people who might buy drugs with welfare money are pretty screwed up, taking people’s money and using it for drugs like that. And then it operates as if that “bad thing” is happening just EVERYWHERE and it needs to be codified.

    It’s sort of like what they’re doing with the abortion laws banning race-selection. This isn’t even a problem, they’re just being gratuitously racist.

    • Anonymous

      Exactly, indie.  Well said and perfect illustration.

      I was having a talk with a neighbor the other day who said, “Well, they get three squares a day and great medical care; that’s more than I get.”  So I am talking with that person, sending links, etc.  But it goes so deep.

      Your discussion of the “welfare queen” criminalizing narrative is right on point.

      • Anonymous

        What’s strange is to hear these things among people who actually want to get rid of the death penalty. They’ll express that view, and then say, but go ahead and jail them for life and allow them a place to live and sleep and get internet access because that’s humane.

        Well that would be humane but that’s NOT what happens when you jail people for life.

        • Anonymous

          amen. 

      • Robert Phillips

        When I read your comment, Kay, I didn’t know whether to laugh or cry. “(T)hree squares a day and great medical care”; ROFLMAO.
        If you want to give your neighbor my email addy I’ll be glad to explain what I know about that too, although some of it is TMI for a public site. 

        • Anonymous

          ha!  Right now, she knows she can be proven wrong, but doesn’t want to be.  You know that dance – I’m sure you’ve seen it in others a million times.

          But I won’t let go! 

          • It also doesn’t help that the media perpetuates this idea that there is this GREAT medical care by covering the occasional person who has bought into this delusion and done something to get locked up. (I’m thinking of a man who robbed a bank a couple of months ago, thinking that, if he were in prison, he’d be able to get a much-needed transplant much more quickly (and for free!) than he would if he were on an outside waiting list.  So now this man will sit and rot in prison while realizing that all this media hype about “great’ medical care is just that…while still not having the much-needed organ transplant.

          • Anonymous

            Yes, exactly.  I did photocopy our discussion of the brutality of HIV/AIDS “care” in prisons and give it to her.  Haven’t heard any comment yet.

            You have been an important voice in sounding the HIV/AIDS alarm in prisons, Vikki – and for raising other health care issues, for which much gratitude.

            Thinking of the guy who needs a transplant, and my heart is breaking AND I am further enraged.  Your description of the belief and the reality is right on time.

    • amen..

      These are so deep – i think it is important as Queer InJustice does to talk about archetypes.. Bigger than just stereotypes

      • Anonymous

        I still hear the “queer predator” one, or just the one where a queer person “has a mental problem/is deranged” (which was discussed a LOT in the QI book because it has historically been used to paint gay criminals as people who commit those acts BECAUSE they are gay and deranged.)

        This is one of the reason I am not as fond of Brokeback Mountain as everyone else is. I haven’t gotten around to reading the book yet, but in the movie, they basically had one of the gay guys grope and essentially try to rape the other in his sleep before they fell in love.

        This is NOT the idea of Queer life that should be popularized.

        In my daily life, though, those two are the most prevalent. Even my sister has said recently that gays were born with something “mentally wrong” with them.

        • Anonymous

          Again, well said.  I agree about Brokeback Mountain – the popular image is not necessarily one that really works for us. 

          Agree that “queer predator” is omnipresent – in a variety of forms. 

          And yes:  the “deranged/mental problem” is also so widespread.

          But we have to fight back without just saying, “No, we’re NOT!”  We need to be much more imaginative and fight back without reifying the original crap.

  • Robert Phillips

    Hallelujah!, CMP is finally letting me in, if still a little balky. Great essay, Kay! I kind of know a little bit about the whole prison body builder thing.
    Sometimes my comments tend to run rather long, more than once Nancy has suggested they might have made diaries of their own.
    While I’m glad to answer questions in this thread, I think maybe I’ll try and put my thoughts on prison body building  into diary form.

    • Anonymous

      Hey, pal, GREAT to see you!  The Guardians at the Gate let you through.

      Please put your thoughts on prison body building into an article.  I would be eager to read it. 

    • Yes!! :)

      http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=usfiAsWR4qU

      so great to see you — would love to hear more in diary form from you on this!

  • Nhorgan

    Kay, this is an excellent indictment of the ways this society normalizes our monstrous system of imprisonment.  I didn’t know about the book you mention, but I hear a casual” joke” about prison rape at least every couple of weeks.  Many people know as much about life or nonlife on Mars as they do about what’s done in their names all over the country.

    • Emmet

      Nhorgan is me, Emmet.  This system asks my name but doesn’t use it.

    • Anonymous

      hey, N/Emmet, so wonderful to see you.  Thanks for your kind words.

      I hear the rape jokes all the time, too.

      How’s life?

      • Emmet

        Good right now, thanks.   Family’s holding steady, and Christmas cookie season is almost upon us!  And you?

        • Anonymous

          Delayed in decorating our Myrna Loy tree this year, and trying to figure out what I’m baking for the neighbors.  Any ideas? 

    • Anonymous

      What they “know” about prison they learned from watching Oz and The Shawshank Redemption.  It’s not within an inch of something they could imagine.

      • Anonymous

        serious amen, conlakappa.  serious.

        • Anonymous

          I remember some fool actually citing Oz to buttress his argument once in CIK.  It was rather painful to read.

  • Absolutely horrifying and disgusting, Kay.  Thank you for bringing attention to this and for framing the issues so perfectly — criminalizing narratives that normalize racism, state violence against black and brown folk, and the PIC are pervasive — until we examine and dismantle them — we are all complicit. 

    • i think this piece will be a great foundation for on-going critique of these narratives a they continue to emerge

      thanks Seeta!

    • Domino

      hey Seeta..

    • Anonymous

      Seeta, thank you so much for CMP, the dream blog. 

      I’ve been thinking so much lately about how many white people I know and work with who are truly certain that they would have stepped out for abolition of slavery and against segregation.

      But I believe they imagine that these things are gone because they don’t appear in the same form.  The form always alters cosmetically.  It’s so easy for folks to swear they are against something in retrospect. 

      The harder task is for us to recognize the new garb in which the old racism appears.

  • Anonymous

    In the image in my comment below – the truncated image – click on it and you’ll see the whole thing.  (Thanks, Nancy.)

  • Anonymous

    OK, I’m afraid to mess with the article formatting, so am going to try to post a jpg of the text from the Felon Fitness promotional email.  I couldn’t get the formatting right in the post itself – didn’t know how to do strikeovers.  Let’s see if this works.

    • Anonymous

      Well, that didn’t work!  Sorry, folks.

      I’ll describe.  In the promotional email quoted near the top of the piece, the words “refuse to get raped…by expensive gym fees!” have a strikethrough, so that is meant to be a “joke.” 

      Sure.

    • yes.. makes it worse.. If that is even possible

  • Anonymous

    Wow, Kay, you took that choked-on anger and turned it into a powerful piece!  I thought of you all when I recently saw in the guide that a show about inside  foreign prisons.  I guess it further exoticizes the experience.

    • a regular travel log now…

      thank you conlakappa for pointing this book out to us — i too kept hoping it was a sick joke, but no..

    • Anonymous

      Remember that women in prison movie with Pam Grier – incarcerated in the Philippines, to exoticize the whole thing.  Love Pam Grier, but that movie was foul.

    • Anonymous

      Oh, and conlakappa – again, profound thanks to you for forwarding on that promotional email.  I hated reading it and going to the website, but now I will transform that crap into my crowbars and other tools used to dismantle the PIC.

  • Thank you Kay for your articulateness and insight! Can’t stay for tonight’s discussion unfortunately. The little one has a science report due tomorrow (necessitating that she use  the computer). But wanted to dorp in and say hello and thank you, as always, for being that truthful mirror!

    • hey vikki!

      thanks for stopping!

    • Anonymous

      Thanks for being her, Vikki, and good luck to little one and her science report!

  • Domino

    that’s just outrageous..

    wow…

    • Anonymous

      hey, Domino, great to see you.  I saw you over in the Mumia post, too.  Thanks for being here.

      • Domino

        thank YOU Kay – and Nancy – for being here.. 
        weekly eye-openers – as horrible as they may be..

    • wow is right

      i had not seen the Lindsay Lohan “game”..:(

      • Anonymous

        The TMZ blog is a cesspool, anyhow, trafficking in anything they can dig up or use to humiliate celebs. 

      • Domino

        me either..

    • Anonymous

      And it’s from an edgy hipster e-mail that I receive.  I guess it’s from the same train of though that brought us pimps-and-hos-themed parties.

      • yes and  “Ghetto-oply”

        Remember that one??

        • Anonymous

          I’d forgotten that one, Nancy.  But yes.  Reprehensible.

        • Domino

          no?   what the??

          • http://boardgamegeek.com/boardgame/8063/ghettopoly

            “Buying stolen properties, pimpin hoes, building crack houses and projects,
            paying protection fees and getting car jacked are some of the elements of the
            game. Not dope enough?…If you don’t have the money that you owe to the loan
            shark you might just land yourself in da Emergency Room.”

          • Domino

            :O

  • Anonymous

    They’re… serious? Raped by excessive gun fees? Incredible.

    • It is shocking..

      great to see yo indie!! Been thinking about you :)

      • Anonymous

        Thanks! I’m glad that I feel good enough right now be here, after the past few weeks. Gah. My appointment with the neurosurgeon is tomorrow, so I find out more information then!

        It is great to see you as well. And Kay (I miss you a lot Kay.)

        Also I emailed you, Nancy. I was asking a question about web hosting.

        • been running all day — but i will check

          All the best tomorrow!!

          • Anonymous

            Thanks, I’m ready to get it over with. I’m scared of what they’ll say, but at least I have some other options for second opinions now (I don’t want to hijack the post but suffice it to say, people at Daily Kos have gotten me contacts at Johns Hopkins and elsewhere. Crazy.)

          • Good you are getting the best advice — you deserve it!~

            Keep us posted please

        • Anonymous

          I miss you, too, indie.  I’ll just have to be a better correspondent by email.  Sending such love.

          • Anonymous

            I love you too! You should definitely email me really soon. I have some interesting new developments to tell you about (not really good ones for me though.)

            It’d be nice to talk to you about it. I seem to never be able to find your email address either way, so, yeah, do it!

        • Domino

          Best of luck to you Indie..

          • Anonymous

            Thanks, Domino. Good to see you!

          • Domino

            you too (((Indie)))

    • Anonymous

      had a little trouble with the formatting – there was a strikeover to show how clever they are; I’ll try to get that fixed.

      But yeah, they joke about rape.

      Great to see you, indie.  I was thinking about you today.

  • Anonymous

    Good news today – not enough good news, but I’ll take what’s there.  Prosecutors dropped the push to get the death penalty for Mumia Abu-Jamal who was granted a new sentencing hearing some time back.

    Now, as Domino said in that post, also on CMP, time to abolish the death penalty altogether.

  • And thank you Kay for saying it so plain..

    However  many times i see this dehumanizing  “entertainment” or  as yo so rightly name them, :criminalizing cultural narratives”, I am stunned..

    Awareness is the first step to confronting and ending this unfortunate trend

    • Anonymous

      There are little blips where we go for a minute or two without this vicious “entertainment.”  But they never last for long.

      • Anonymous

        And there was more to that e-mail, including the subjectline:
        “Workout Tips Straight from the Prison Yard”

        and the subheading to Felon Fitness:
        “Don’t be a b*tch, or anyone else’s”

        • i am gonna see if i can load the original pics too

        • Anonymous

          Thanks for adding that, c.  I just couldn’t when I was doing the piece – there was too much red rage clanging around in me.

          But you’ve just added depth and context, for which gratitude.  (You ALWAYS add depth and context.)