46 comments
SaraNelson2013
SaraNelson2013

I really enjoyed the section on Civil Liberties.  The basic idea that come to mind are lack of education and lack of care from citizens.  Growing up I really only remember a very small amount of time that I was teaching about the 4th amendment.  I also think I was about 13 and didn't really understand the context or the importance of the issue.  I went to a "nicer" public school.  I can only imagine the education that kids are receiving on the issues at an inner city school.  The second issue is the lack of people standing against this.  I know that I fall into this category.  I shouldn't allow my rights to be violated just because I am not doing anything "wrong"

ShannonLeeMcBride
ShannonLeeMcBride

So where does resistance begin for those of us who aren't generally 'them'? I fall into all but one privileged/dominant/agent group. What does my resistance look like? Aside from speaking up in everyday conversation, where do I go? Who do I talk to? Tasers are dangerous, far more violent than we are led to believe they are, and as evidenced in "Tagging, Tasers, and the Police State, Part 1" they are in fact lethal. Much like I feel that one innocent person put to death makes the death penalty unjust, one person whose death was the result of a tasing makes tasers lethal. But they are already in the hands of police, and for the most part unregulated. Now what...? I don't mean to sound defeatist. I want to resist... I just don't know where to start...

Domino14
Domino14

It is really sad to say that none of this is surprising anymore.  It shouldn't be like this.  Horrible and disgusting.

Seeta
Seeta moderator

Thanks for this Nancy -- here we go again -- getting ready to go to war with Syria without multilateral action, assuming the role of world sheriff, when the US system commits inhumane, unconstitutional atrocities against its own citizens daily.  SMH on this 50th Anniversary of the MOW.

ScottieThomaston
ScottieThomaston

Interestingly, the libertarian crowd, Cato, et al, is strongly in support of privatized prisons. They're for that even while opposing the war on drugs and such. So these are people who theoretically oppose police states but whose preferred policies would lock more and more people away. Strange.

KayWhitlock
KayWhitlock

This is an intensification of what, basically, has always been the case.  Thank you, Nancy, for being willing to dredge these bleak waters for truthful analysis.  

In the newly-released batch of Nixon tapes, here's one where he's being updated by then-Attorney General Richard Kleindeinst on the 1973 AIM occupation of Wounded Knee:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=errM6doSb3s&feature=c4-overview&list=UU00LVExPrUiWeLqQC92Ttmw

At the time of Wounded Knee 2, a nonprofit organization posted me to the AIM-operated Wounded Knee Communications Center in Rapid City, SD to report back.  I can attest to the U.S. militarization of response.

nancy a heitzeg
nancy a heitzeg moderator

tech ?? why you are here..

are you seeing the videos in the diary?? there are 3

 i am showing just links -- tried to fix it.. Not sure if it is just my browser

nancy a heitzeg
nancy a heitzeg moderator

@Seeta i know seeta.. and the timing is just too much..

Always time and $$ for destruction and not much else

KayWhitlock
KayWhitlock

@Seeta Amen, Seeta.  This anniversary should be meaningful in a different way.  But this country seems to repeat old patterns over and over.  We just dress them up slightly differently.


Fortunately, a new spirit of movement building is afoot.

KayWhitlock
KayWhitlock

@ScottieThomaston Another thought.  Many people on all points along the political spectrum oppose a police state that infringes on "us."  But support it when it targets "them."

KayWhitlock
KayWhitlock

@ScottieThomaston Hey, Scottie, great to see you.  Actually - I don't think it's strange at all.  Michael Bronski and I are working on a book together that kind of tackles this perception - not just in terms of libertarians, but the larger question of why policies of exclusion, control, confinement of the "Other" always seem to trump everything else in this society.  Not only among libertarians, but also among liberals and progressives as well as conservatives and wingers.

nancy a heitzeg
nancy a heitzeg moderator

@KayWhitlock thanks for this Kay. the current roots of much of this lie with nixon.. then reagan..

and yeah thanks Bill Clinton.. Not

Bleak bleak waters indeed...

ScottieThomaston
ScottieThomaston

Same in terms of transgender people and gender non-conforming

ScottieThomaston
ScottieThomaston

@KayWhitlock @ScottieThomaston You see that a lot with LGBT rights, too. It's fine to harass gay people using unconstitutional laws that remain on the books in some states, or to raid bars where gays go. It's fine to make us targets of police harassment, or at least it happens without much thought. But if that system targets something that fits into a person's particular political ideology, suddenly the police state is the worst.

ScottieThomaston
ScottieThomaston

@KayWhitlock @ScottieThomaston It's great to see you too! I feel like it's been forever. 


And that makes sense I suppose. It just seems counterintuitive to SAY you're against, for example, policies that are designed to lock up people, but then to also be for other policies that do the same thing. I guess opposition or support depends on who's most affected.

nancy a heitzeg
nancy a heitzeg moderator

@Seeta @nancy a heitzeg just tested.. i can't use the code so hopefully the link will work for me again..Did yesterday -- just not today for some reason

thanks again for fixing seeta

Seeta
Seeta moderator

@nancy a heitzeg @Seeta oh yeah -- i remember.  it shouldn't be an issue -- it's one i haven't figured out.  i use FF, so it most likely is some specific configuration... who knows

KayWhitlock
KayWhitlock

@ScottieThomaston @KayWhitlock Yes, great phase:  "walling off effect." 

I think some of today's antiviolence organizations, like CUAV and NCAVP are definitely going in good directions.  The article I sent is historical, charting the shift. 

ScottieThomaston
ScottieThomaston

@KayWhitlock @ScottieThomaston Agreed. I've had (ridiculous) conversations with people who seem to feel like it's just too "messy" to complicate things by bringing trans rights into the picture at this time. And people who get seriously defensive over racial discussions. There is a huge "walling off" effect. It used to seem like maybe white gay men took over the movement so their/our issues came first and others should "wait their turns", but now I honestly get the impression that people just think they shouldn't HAVE to discuss those other issues. This isn't universal, or at least I've met a lot of people who genuinely care about ALL queer people, but it is hugely noticeable. 


I had no idea it was happening in anti-violence orgs but from my experience I would not be surprised. It's depressing. More and more people see only their narrow circumstances as "their" issue, and everyone else is on their own.

KayWhitlock
KayWhitlock

@ScottieThomaston @KayWhitlock Also, we need to keep in mind that the more "equality" comes to gay people - certainly not yet to trans people - the policing will continue, but it will concentrate more and more (this has already been happening) on queers who are poor and of color and gender nonconforming.  

Some great work has been done by Christina Hanhardt (Radical History Review - monetized, but I'll send you a copy via email) on how even white gays who started antiviolence organizations came to regard POC as "danger" in their communities.

We keep getting split off in every category - by race, class, and queerness (not gayness; uncontrollable queerness).  And gender. 

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  1. […] of police and military, a focus on police militarization as the essence of current problems ignores the long history of state terror against communities of color and the extent to which a militarized response has always been the first resort here. It is […]

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